"There were many reasons YOUNG BLACKMAN ended – and we can keep those buried. Fundamentally, it ended because the question was 'do you want to be a commercial gallerist?' and the answer was absolutely not."
– Matthew Blackman

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"A lot of people at the Kimberly Hotel would say 'This isn’t art, it’s rubbish,' and I’d say more people have probably looked at Kendell Geers’ broken windows than have looked at most artworks in South Africa. Many people who were walking by YOUNG BLACKMAN at night would stop and look in. Many of them must have thought 'that must mean something…this must be meaningful in some way.' It may have gotten a lot of people angry, but a lot of people engaged with it."
– Matthew Blackman

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"YOUNG BLACKMAN informed Under Projects. It was an exciting thing to see in the first year of art school. I got my head shaved in Gerald Mashona’s exhibition. In hindsight, to me it filled a space in the ecology. The hope was to be in the National Gallery by forty years old, and in the commercial galleries by thirty, but what was I supposed to do in my twenties? And here was this space. This is where you are supposed to be experimental. It was helpful to see that step, which is usually missing in the post-art school narrative."
– Mitchell Gilbert Messina 

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"Because independent project spaces are not archived or accounted for, there is the continuous feeling that you are the first person to do it. Once a project is gone, and all the people who saw it are gone, the people who come afterwards are left with no roadmap and no sense of what could be. I want to gather all of this information and make it publicly accessible so that you don’t have to be in the right ‘scene’ to find out about it."
– Khanya Mashabela

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"I think initially when we decided to make a project space, we wanted it to be ‘open open’. We did an open call and received many proposals and portfolios from people who had seen us on Instagram but who had never actually been to the space. And then we realised that there was something generative in tightening the exhibitions to people who actually contribute to a sense of community by being there all the time and attending exhibition openings. We like the idea of being very local and creating a tight-knit community, rather than wanting to be as big as possible and inviting big international names."
– Mitchell Gilbert Messina

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"What I have learned is that it is very easy to start a project space. You just have to be boldfaced and silly and reckless. The hard part is sustaining it."
– Mitchell Gilbert Messina

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"People are often talking about why there aren’t many independent publications writing about art, and the answer is very simple. When you plan an exhibition you have to pay for the space and perhaps some installation and production costs, but you don’t have to pay every single artist in order for them to agree to exhibit their work. Every writer will say that they need to be paid for the labour of writing for a publication because, unlike with artists, there is no chance of money coming in down the line if a work sells. Either you get paid for your writing or you don’t get paid."
– Khanya Mashabela

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"We all have other jobs. That is how we are able to afford the idea of Under Projects as a non-commercial space. The amount of capital needed to begin a project space is so high that it seems ridiculous to be an experimental space when you could be entrepreneurial instead. Part of the reason that Under exists is because of the pandemic. Rent became more affordable."
– Mitchell Gilbert Messina 

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"These collaborations are a lot like bands in the sense that personal relationships exist alongside more formalised working relationships. Some bands last forever, but our band needed to break up. And that is what it was, a break-up."
– Matthew Blackman

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"Projects happen and then go away, happen and then go away. That is fine, as long as they keep on happening. If they want to become stable and continue, they grow into something else and take on another role in the art world. It is sad when projects end but they are probably at their most interesting when they first begin."
– Ed Young 

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"I was interviewing Siemon Allen about Flat Gallery in Durban, and what struck me as being the biggest impetus to begin a project space is a sense of frustration about being excluded from something that you desperately want to be a part of. Perhaps there has to be a sense of exclusion for new project spaces to begin – 'This art scene is cliquey. Screw them, I’m going to start my own clique!'"
– Khanya Mashabela 

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"YOUNG BLACKMAN began just as the financial crisis was happening. Ed [Young] has mentioned his irritation at the period of stagnation that happened after YOUNG BLACKMAN ended. I think this generation of artists and cultural workers needed their own financial crisis and that ended up being the pandemic."
– Khanya Mashabela 

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.

"It does get to the point where it is difficult to not ‘consolidate’ your model. The first few shows are exhausting and you are making everything up from scratch. And then it gets to the point where you say to each other, 'a video always works best on that wall' and 'last time we put a sculpture there and it looked great.' Eventually the exhibitions become repetitive and you have to force yourself to open things up in some way. I think that is why the idea of relinquishing control of the space to someone else is interesting."
– Mitchell Gilbert Messina 

Invited practitioners joined curator Khanya Mashabela in a roundtable conversation centred on artist-led project spaces and collaborative exhibition-making. The engagement formed part of Mashabela’s wider research project, Social, and took place in the Gallery during Common, extending the exhibition’s reflections on collective action and shared resources. Matthew Blackman and Ed Young (YOUNG BLACKMAN), Carol Khaas and Lebo Kekanna (FEDE), and Mitchell Gilbert Messina (Under Projects) contributed to the conversation.